Continued. The first part of the interview is available here — Kolomoisky: “If the president will Tymoshenko, I see myself in exile”

— Who is better for you — Prime Minister Yanukovych or Tymoshenko prime minister?

— Still Tymoshenko.

— Why?

— Because at the premiere of Tymoshenko I do not know when such a company as “Dniproenergo” taken, diluted the stock, took them, maybe even a legal way. The state was 76%, and suddenly it turned to 51%.

I know that this all happened under Yanukovych. As there were many other things in 2004. For example, Kryvorizhstal, and more Ukrrudprom and Nikopol Ferroalloy Plant.

We should all be aware that Yanukovych and company — is an established, well—structured, cohesive and cynical political industrial corporation which is convinced that its interests above the interests of the country and the people living in this country.

For her power — and this is the purpose and means, and nothing they will not stop on the road to power and to retain that power. Let Ukraine will collapse, but left the Party of Regions.

Tymoshenko — a no less severe case. It is the classic “black widow” in politics. It is a loner and power for it represents an absolute value, and ideologically it is clear Trotskyite. And it sits inside her, and she can not figure it out. As oligarhiney—loser, she hates any capital, and especially large. And this batch of Trotskyism and broken business career, coupled with vindictiveness makes an explosive mixture.

Weak positive hope for the same gives her inner loneliness — about her not yet formed a stable company with the same interests.

— Criticizing Tymoshenko today, you disingenuous, because previously you could find it a common language. Moreover, much of it for you, it was dismissed in 2005 — Tymoshenko accused that she lobbied on your behalf. Do you have any remorse?

— I can not say that Tymoshenko’s dismissal occurred because of me. So, I have no remorse. Rather, Tymoshenko was removed because of her desire to settle personal scores with Pinchuk — immediately, today and forever. And we have at this moment coincided interests.

— But at the same time on the selection of “Dniproenergo” from Akhmetov help you open Tymoshenko …

— And we do not help her, we are helping ourselves. The fact that the story of the NFP, with Kryvorizhstal for anyone not become a cold shower. Did not! Tell me, what is the fight for the NFP, if no one in 2005 and learned nothing.

Across the country have shown that when they pulled Krivorozhstal, and then they picked it, it’s just bad luck, an accident. And ten other projects are not selected now and you can safely continue to steal more. Actions on “Dniproenergo” advertised method — you can pull off at first, then haggle as to give to leave it to yourself!

— It is rather strange to hear that you are! They see you as a cynical and often step over the agreement. And now the man with the image wants to play the role of a fighter for justice and the arbitrator.

— (Long silence) You know the difference between a hamster and a rat? The difference in the PR software. Hamster so small, cute, pet, children love, are played. A rat — disgusting filthy animal from which the women faint. A difference in only one — in the PR software.

— You spend on public relations to ensure a lot of money …

— I do not spend on its image software. Moreover, all these legends that we hear — it’s a legend people who are with me, maybe not familiar with.

About Rosukrenergo

— Why do you think you will find yourself with Tymoshenko in exile?

— See, Tymoshenko became prime minister in December. I also really like this, and have applied some effort.

— What?

— Moral, not just material. I thought it should be held democratic coalition, and that was a very difficult situation, 228 deputies — is an unstable structure. Maybe at some stage need to be done and a broad coalition. But I think that today this country is not ready yet.

And so, as soon as Tymoshenko came to power, then took my first steps in the gas issue. The result — we got a gas war.

And I understand that last bit of strength she held in December, we otgulyali New Year, and in January she could not resist and started to revise the gas agreements.

Perhaps a system of gas supply was not transparent, something else is wrong. But if you do not like the fact that it is opaque, it is not a reason to abolish this system, to break or tear down. This is an occasion to try to make it transparent.

Tymoshenko did not like Mr Firtash, because once it became the place RUE Itera, and Mr Makarov (Itera head) was more likable … That is, it removes Firtash simply on the basis of some of his personal feelings, personal emotions, personal likes and dislikes .

But this is not the position of prime minister! The position of the Prime Minister is a blessing — the country’s economy, businesses and people. And this is a good price for gas, which was Ukraine.

— Wait, you yourself are struggling with RosUkrEnergo a year ago!

— Yes, we struggled. But the fight against RosUkrEnergo — it does not mean to take and destroy this structure.

For what is RUE? The joint venture, in which 50% is owned by Gazprom, and the second 50% — Messrs. Firtash and Fursin. And this company has any contracts, commitments until 2028 for some affordable, very nice prices.

If you do not like them, so invite Firtash, or appoint Dubin invite Firtash, and say: “I do not want to whether Mr. Firtash to sell its share in RUE”?

— Let’s say, three billion dollars? But it is dummy!

— We do not know whether the dummy. Show me the results of the Dew Diligence!

— And you would have bought 50% of RosUkrEnergo?

— I will have nothing to say in detail, but I’m now negotiating on the subject. I decided to Dew diligence of the company RosUkrEnergo.

— Who do you negotiate?

— From Firtash — the sale of its shares and the share of Ivan Fursin in RUE.

— That is, you will not fail?

— No.

— When did these negotiations?

— Where a month ago.

— What are you interested in RUE?

— I am interested in contracts for gas.

— They are the same in “Gazprom” decorated simply given in the use of RosUkrEnergo — is not it?

— We do not know who they are decorated. In order to buy something, a company that has expressed its desire to buy — and I expressed such a wish — make it possible, under certain conditions, the signing of confidentiality to Dew diligence.

— OK, as long as you do not feel sorry for half of RosUkrEnergo?

— I can not say yet. If what was said in the press proves true, then I believe that these 50% are at least 2—3 billion dollars. No less! Although there may be such that the next day and $ 5 billion will not be sorry.

— Are not you afraid to enter into one company with Gazprom? You know that tomorrow, “Gazprom” will tell you as new partners, “Guys, I’m sorry, but we are abolishing the gas.”

— No, he can not say that. Gazprom is one of those organizations that carry out the agreements signed are very strict and tough. Have the company as Gazprom partner — I think it’s an honor.

If Ukraine will not accept that gas, which will be in RosUkrEnergo, the company will sell it elsewhere. In Europe, thank goodness, a lot of consumers.

About “Dneproenergo”

— Why do you advocate for something to take away the right to operate Akhmetov “Dniproenergo” with its 44%, unless you run a “Ukrnafta”, with 42%?

— I have not denied the right to Manage Your even if it is 1%. But what have the shares of the state, who were with him? Akhmetov has not been 44%. If you menedzhiruesh, please take their managerial, let you pay the salary and bonuses, but that does not mean that you should give the shares.

— Maybe you are jealous Akhmetov, that he was more agile, able to negotiate effectively with officials and you gain control of “Dniproenergo”?

— I’m very respectful to Akhmetov, especially to his agility. He is very agile person. (Laughs.)

— Why did you fight in the conflict with “Dniproenergo”?

— Let’s start with the fact that “Dniproenergo” did not pay their debts with the group “Privat”. We have a small package, but it’s so small, that does not allow us to say that we are major shareholders.

We have never pretended to Manage Your the company. But I do not like the way it was done — using administrative resources and the fact that Yanukovych was prime minister and all the issues of privatization could be solved within three or four rooms, just pass each other by—pass list, all to sign, and translate the shares of pocket and in your own. That I do not like.

— That is, you fight for justice?

— On the one hand, for justice, but on the other — for your interest.

— And what is more important?

— I can say that the first justice, then interest, but I do not believe it, say that the first interest, then justice. In fact, there match their personal interests and the struggle for justice.

My concern is this: I do not want to be, a group of “Private” or any other company in Ukraine, but SCM deprive the opportunity to participate in what we believe ourselves to fit.

I support the idea that everyone had equal opportunity to come and participate in the contest. But not for one customer, who was also on “Kryvorizhstal”, or NFP.

— How much you have spent money on the conflict of “Dniproenergo”?

— Believe me, the budget is unlimited. (Laughs)

— If you were offered, would you buy stocks “Dniproenergo”?

— I do not know. This company is very expensive, perspective. But let’s look from an economic point of view. Debts “Dniproenergo” billions of hryvnia, then there is $ 200 million. And how much Dniproenergo? Not less than $ 3 billion.

“Dniproenergo” was in bankruptcy, because it was not calculated for 200 million dollars. But this is — not a critical amount, no such order had to issue new shares, with 44%. Evaluators of the company? In many valued these shares? How was it to pay 200 million must pay 44%? While I believe that 44% of the 3 billion worth 1 billion 200 million. So where did he go on the road billion and to whom it went?

— Do you think anyone?

— Anyone who owns those shares today.

— If tomorrow will be re—sale of the company “Dniproenergo”, you will participate in the auction?

— We have to see who will be involved. Will there be someone else, but Rinat Akhmetov, in whose hands will fall and so on. For us this is important because we need clear conditions on the formation of prices.

In general, we do not consider “Dniproenergo” as the object of our intense interest. But let’s think.

About the Nikopol Ferroalloy Plant

— You are so indignant with the history of “Dniproenergo” … And if you Akhmetov offered to buy half of “Dniproenergo” in the form in which it looks like now? After all, you are ready to enter the RUE, which is on the shady scheme to build your business, you could just enter in “Dniproenergo.”

— Right answer — I would not buy “Dniproenergo” in this form. We had a similar story with Pinchuk.

We signed the paper in 1999 that together we should participate in the privatization of the Nikopol Ferroalloy Plant. Before privatization, it required him to cede part of the commodity business — and Marganetsk Ordzhonikidze GOK. But we do not agree on the price.

In addition, we did not agree when I say that for the NFP must pay the market price. When asked Pinchuk, “why?” I said: “If not a market, the plant will take away.” And said — take away!

— But in the end you agree with Pinchuk, and the story of the NFP in general is over. You fought with Pinchuk, struggled, and then entered into an agreement with him and agreed to work on his scheme, according to its interest.

— We did everything we could. We’re so supported by the state that it has managed to win Pinchuk all courts, he could not do anything, and these shares have been returned to the state. However, at the head of the State Property Fund was Socialist Semeniuk, who felt that the people of Ukraine have since lost touch with NFP, that his return is not necessary.

— But you stepped on the throat of his own song, and agreed to an alliance with Pinchuk!

— No, we do not step on the throat of his own song. The controversial package is Pinchuk, and as far as I know, the state now has resumed his efforts to get it back. Though not entirely successful. Tymoshenko signed the claim to the Economic Court of Dnipropetrovsk region on behalf of the Cabinet, she signed it!

— How did you come together with Pinchuk about NFP, as agreed?

— At Pinchuk was controversial package of 50% +1 share, and was the undisputed pack 23% percent. And we have been in the area of ??26%. Under our control in conjunction with Pinchuk today is about 49%. This is sufficient to Manage Your Enterprise. In addition, Pinchuk is a package of 50% +1 share, which is controversial.

When it comes to legal language, we have issued all their arrangements somewhere in November 2006.

— What was the conceptual reconciliation with your Pinchuk?

— The fact that, with our 26% and 23%, ie more than 40%, enough to retain control of the NFP.

— And how do you work? You divide the profits in half?

— No. These are issues that are confidential. We operate in a proportion that reflects the availability of assets for us and it’s assets. In addition to NFP because there is still other assets to which Pinchuk has nothing to do. Therefore, having its assets to 23% of NFP, he moved on to a single share.

After all, there Marganetsk mine is Stakhanov Ferroalloy Plant is Zaporizhia ferroalloy. That is, we took all our interests in all of these companies and merged into one big pot.

— That is, a passive shareholder Pinchuk now?

— Yes.

— How many shares in the conventional holding belongs to you?

— If I tell you, you will realize how much Pinchuk. I can not give a specific figure, because he sued me tomorrow.

— What role did your global trade representatives “luzhnikovskoy of” Babak and Voevodin? They say, Pinchuk wary to deal with you one on one, and called them as intermediaries, for which they bought a share. Were the negotiations, in which you participated, Pinchuk and Spector?

— Spector sometimes present at the talks. True, he was represented by Pinchuk, who hired him.

— So he was like a referee?

— Not really. I do not know the subtleties of relationships Pinchuk and Spector, but they certainly are. Pinchuk I asked: “Is it possible, to present Michael Spector”? I did not mind, but said: “We will be Spector’s interest, if we have some options, relationships?”.

Pinchuk said that “we have some agreements and they will be implemented once, but you will have to deal with me.” Pinchuk, explained that he wants our relationship someone has heard of. I understand that there is some agreement in between Pinchuk and Spector

— Pinchuk was afraid to deal with you, and invited him to participate?

— The word “afraid” I do not like.

— Afraid?

— “Afraid” — much less enjoy. But Pinchuk was not entirely comfortable, because he wanted someone to lean on. (Laughs.)

About relations with Tymoshenko

— Did you have a conceptual agreement with Yulia Tymoshenko against Viktor Pinchuk selection of Nikopol Ferroalloy Plant in 2005? Have you met during this conflict?

— No, there was no agreement. We have not met. Until the fall of 2006, the last time I saw Tymoshenko in 1999.

— Under what circumstances does it happen in 1999?

— Just when we were discussing the issue of the Southern Mining and Processing Plant. Our actions do not like peregistrirovat registrar, who then controlled the Tymoshenko.

— But in the end you still extended a the shares — on the good will of Tymoshenko?

— No, in spite of.

— So, you had a conflict?

— Of course. Once was.

— Is it true that as a result of the appointment of Prime Minister Tymoshenko you underpaid for the Southern Mining and Processing Plant?

— We are today on this subject will not speak. Today you can not talk about it.

— But your response indicates that the surcharge was still just do not tell you how much!

— Why? Knowing my reputation, all may think I am a rascal, lukavlyu or bluffing.

— How do you then come to terms with Tymoshenko?

— We are not reconciled. Still ahead. Reconciliation ahead!

— Now you still partner Yulia Tymoshenko on the conflict around the NFP?

— Currently we have no interests, we take a neutral position on NFP. But if the state will sell its stake, which is now moot, we will participate in its purchase.

— And will be like in 2005 to support Yulia Tymoshenko — the posters to hang, hold the shares?

— No, we will not.

— It turns out that you are satisfied with the status quo at NFP?

— No, let Tymoshenko will try very least something to do.

— On the one hand, it turns out that Tymoshenko is fighting with you at the Kremenchug refinery, on the other hand, it is — your ally in the return of “Dniproenergo.” How can this be?

— What Tymoshenko ally? I believe in “Dniproenergo” it generally helps Akhmetov. Tymoshenko has not fulfilled campaign promises and does not fight for the return of the enterprise.

— You are now solicits Tymoshenko to action?

— No, not incite. Tymoshenko does not do anything in the issue of “Dniproenergo.” She only had to cancel the stroke of the pen is completely illegal decision on the additional issue of Yanukovych. Because there is a direct rule of law — can not repay the losses and debts of the company through the issuance of additional issue.

Tymoshenko should just cancel the order, but she ventured such a thing! I think that if it does not, then there is some secret or explicit agreement, it is a dialogue with the Party of Regions under the table. Recall, for example, a promising first reading of the law on tender purchases. She voted along with the regions, despite the fact that “Our Ukraine” did not vote.

This is an important question because the Tender Chamber … If they’re just making money, but they paralyzed the economy. Here we have is 600 fillings “Ukrnafta” because we were not able to buy petroleum products.

— Are you ready to sell its stake in “Ukrnafta”?

— If everything will go further, it is probably ready.

— How much are you willing to ask for it?

— Today, the company’s capitalization has fallen, it is not worth $ 4 billion. If we sell, we, along with everything — from gasoline filling stations, infrastructure, fuel truck, tank farms.

— Who would make a buyer “Ukrnafta”?

— “Ukrnafta” very appreciated by all Russian companies. Incidentally, I think, if “Gazprom” buy “Ukrnafta”, it is very easy to cope with all the problems in Ukraine, with which we are now facing. They simply include it in a package of some political agreement and say that “there have interfered.”

And I believe that now is a violation of shareholder rights by Tymoshenko. It is wrong to refer to the company, in which 50% have a NAC, and 50% —1 from private shareholders. Such as private, in Semirenkovskom field, where Rudkovsky and Shufrich have 50% in Poltava gas company, where shareholders — the British.

It is necessary or liquidate the company and split it 50/50, or behave in a civilized manner. The problem is that we should change the law. The first law on joint stock companies.

— Are you ready to make to reduce the quorum for meetings of shareholders?

— We do not object. Only need to register and protect the rights of others. Right now in Australia Bogolyubov bought the company. According to their laws protected even one who has only 1% of the shares.

The new law on joint stock companies have revived the stock market. We have created something that we very much for a long time talking, not the freak that we exist.

About the Kremenchug refinery

— One of the recent conflict — around the Kremenchug oil refinery? What is the current distribution of shares in the refinery? Who and how much control?

— All controls director Paul Ovcharenko. We do not interfere.

— So you do not earn a Kremenchug?

— In Kremenchug — no.

— How did you were a shareholder of Kremenchug refinery?

— In fact, we helped Alexander Yaroslavsky. If in 2004, came to power, Yanukovych, in the interests of Yaroslavl have been restored Ovcharenko as head of the company. Were such an agreement.

But fortunately, there was a Orange Revolution, Yanukovych did not become president. And all of the obligations were written off, no debts.

And then suddenly there was a reincarnation of Mr Yanukovich! No one expected and it was accomplished — in 2006, Yanukovych became prime minister.

I’m not saying that Yanukovich had to remember all those who went with him to the presidential election. He has helped quite a lot of people. Tigipko, for example, the chief of staff, Medvedchuk there beating his head against the wall in the Kuchma administration, many others …

It was a lot of people who did not take the list of Yanukovych, and not even offered, in spite of them serious enough to merit Yanukovych in 2004. Here Yaroslavsky, for example, are not offered.

Incidentally, in 2006, Yanukovich offered to me personally to enter a list of the Party of Regions.

— For how long?

— Not for much, just. Still, Dnepropetrovsk, big business, symbolic figure, and so on.

— It was important to dilute the influence of Akhmetov.

— We do not know what his motives and emotions. But I thanked him and said, “Thank you very much, but no.”

When Yaroslavsky has lost hope to return the head of the Kremenchug Ovcharenko naftepererabatyvayuschego factory, we bought a stake, do not even know exactly how much interest. In terms of receiving dividends — is a fraction.

But we bought the shares from Yaroslavl, because the Kremenchug oil refinery — a joint—stock company, sell shares to anybody was not, it is necessary first to offer to everyone else. And we had to qualify for private purchase.

We staked out a position to wait for a case where someone would sell — or state, or Tatar, “Tatneft” (laughs). We wanted to have a right of first refusal and offer a great price.

We (the present) Director Ovcharenko suits more than (former) Director of Glushko. In addition, there was a real danger that, like “Dniproenergo” will disappear and the Kremenchug refinery, because they had accumulated debts of 4 billion, with the help of master tooth (MP from the Party of Regions) and its companies.

— What if you hold on to the meaning of the Kremenchug refinery?

— This is a significant business in general throughout the industry. We do not want to understand who he got. We do not want to Refinery went into the Russian “Tatneft”.

Kremenchug refinery factor — is the stability of the entire market, where we — as a great player.

And all the plans, which now builds the Yulia Tymoshenko is not serious! For example, when they brought back Pashinskaya (BYuT deputy as head of the plant) … I personally do not know him, but say it is some kind of odious person, to which all the crises of sugar, meat, something else. I was told, type directly into the Google.com “Pashinsky” and it just golden willow!

— Tymoshenko herself with you discussed the situation with the Kremenchug?

— We discussed the issue of Kremenchug, when Tymoshenko became prime minister in late 2007. I told him that the state is leaps and bounds to ensure that the gain control in a 60 over the plant. She was not aware of.

Today there is a second question related to the 38% owned by the Kremenchug oil refinery in the Russian “Tatneft”.

When establishing a company, there was prescribed obligations. Producing enterprise — Tatnefteprom, something like that — would have to supply oil, or at least give dividends.

— You allude to the fact that Tatars are now losing even share?

— I think so.

— You want to push them at all?

— I did not say “I want”. I believe in the principle of “Ukrtatnafta” as a company should be eliminated. Because the initial objectives of participants who created a company that had not been implemented. A Kremenchug refinery should return to the State as an integral property complex.

— All returned to the state … NFP, “Dniproenergo” now — Kremenchug refinery. You are a Robin Hood! You in scientific communism, too, was 5?

— Yes.

— Maybe you just go for salaries in the national MFI lawyer?

— I will think over this proposal.

— And how long have you say the phrase “we want to return to the state”?

— Honestly, when re—sold Krivorozhstal, we thought that redistribution of state property has ended. But it turns out (laughs), we also have a “Luganskteplovoz”, which for no apparent reason, suddenly slowly gave some Russian structure.

Moreover, Russia’s structure is very well respected. I am well aware of its shareholders. We were always with them in a warm relationship, and there were some projects partners. I do not understand why they needed the whole story to this plant for the low take four to five times the price. They can not afford to buy up to five times more expensive.

— But there is a caveat in the case of “Luganskteplovoz” you do not return anything rushes to the state, not draw posters, not applying to the courts, do not enter Korban as a shareholder. Maybe you’re just not interested in the asset. How, for example, “Dniproenergo”?

— We are in the “Dniproenergo” not interested. Shares “Luganskteplovoz” return to the state, already has a solution. And in the case of “Dniproenergo” a critical situation — the shares have not returned to the state.

If the shares returned to the state, what difference does it matter who was sitting in the company? Let the State to determine — it is 76%, if you like to manage DTEK — it’s his business!

— That is, if you suddenly Luganskteplovoz not return, you’ll fight for it in the public interest?

— One hundred percent. But how can you return “Luganskteplovoz” when we have such a beautiful woman sitting in the State Property Fund, and from there it just did not dig!

Continuation of the interview: Kolomoisky: Yes, I’m a fan of Yushchenko